Tuesday, July 29, 2008

Dunshire Bagpipe Forum 2/27/07 - 3/1/07

Biblical Bagpipe References (my comments on this topic and some responses)

I think the 1 Kings reference is the best.40 And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.Of course the pipes referenced there were not the modern bagpipe, but what other instrument could "rent" the earth with it's sound eh?!

Response: Originally posted by Ari:As for "And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.", this (as I already have said), has refers to flute-like instruments, not "pipes" as we know them. The pipe idea is nothing more than bad translation gone awry.

Reply: Cool! A flute that can rent the earth with it's sound. I'd like to hear that in an orchestra!Of course bagpipes as we know them today weren't used, but it had to be an instrument of some volume and it is obvious the Isrealites used very loud marshalling instruments in battle. Bagpipes were used for the same purposes.What was a "flute" 2,000 years ago? It could have referred to several different instruments. What is a "horn" today? I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that instruments referred to in the Bible could well have been predecessors of the modern bagpipe.It's all speculation anyway. The Bible wasn't written to document all the musical instruments that were being played at the time so anyone who says this was definately this or that was definately that is guessing.As far as the hebrew translation of the word, here's something of interest:
Quote: The Hebrew word 'chaliyl' (khaw-leel') occurs in six Old Testament references. It was translated 'pipe' or 'pipes' in the King James Version, and 'flute' in the NIV. Some now think from archaeology work by Nelson Glueck, that this instrument was a primitive clarinet, a chalumeau. The chalumeau is a single reed pipe. However, others think the 'chaliyl' was a Hebrew 'shawm'. Most references say a shawm is a double reed instrument that is the ancestor of the oboe

.... and the bagpipe???

http://www.katapi.org.uk/MusicOfTheBible/Contents.htm http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wheelerjw/MITB/MITB.htm http://www.utexas.edu/courses/wilson/ant304/projects/projects98/campbellp/campbellp.html http://www.reedmusictradition.net/html/instruments/102_e_dissemination.html http://www.rakkav.com/kdhinc/pages/instruments.htm http://www.hebrewhistory.info/factpapers/fp008_music.htm

Just some of the many texts on the subject. In spite of the fact that the actual word "bagpipe" doesn't exist in the Bible (which was never suggested), there are opinions by those much more learned than I, that the types of instruments referenced in the Bible may indeed have been reeded instruments of the type which would have been predecessors of the modern bagpipe. I simply want to point out that there are other opinions out there and even scholars can not agree.

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